A shotgun in every home

September 21, 2011 40 Comments
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In reading about Vincent Cooke, one commenter pointed out that in states where there was gun ownership, the incidences of that sort of robbery were much fewer – the game wasn’t worth the candle so much.

That’s right. Here’s a post on the situation by Smallest Minority. And one at Joe Huffman’s. And one from Joe on the new mania to get into your home and police “safe storage” of everything, not just guns.

It is so bleedin obvious what the State is about, both in the U.S. and in the UK [where it has a head start]. It wants to:

1. Disarm all citizens;
2. Control anything held in a home.

Through those measures, citizens will not be able to combine and pose a threat in any numbers. The misrepresentation of the EDL in the media [and it might be true that it includes the old football hooligans but it also includes a hell of a lot of other working class people] is just another example of the fear Them have of any sort of threat from the people.

Smallest Minority quoted a source, concerning the UK:

As a result, the Crown Prosecution Service can (and has) prosecuted people for merely possessing anything they consider to be an “offensive weapon” whether or not said “weapon” was ever displayed.

The conclusion at the end:

All of this has what has been referred to as a “chilling effect” on the willingness of the British populace to actively defend themselves.

All things being equal, the English [and British] population have not been particularly gun-oriented, compared to the Americans and we like to think we can solve everything by negotiation, relying on the friendly bobby on the beat to take care of the occasional naughty person. “Allo, allo, what’s all this then?”

What is becoming increasingly apparent is that:

1. The police now only spend 13% or so of time on the beat or out on active duty – the rest is paperwork;

2. A new type of recruit is coming in who is just basically a thug;

3. The police, at the top, have become polticized as never before – they are targeting specific groups and going soft on others.

The result is that the state is using the police now plus Elfansafetee plus many other EU laws to achieve an impoverished, homebound, home-regulated, compliant population which follows the mantra of PCism and is infantilized. This is lightyears from Joe Huffman’s post, where he says something like, “I’d like to see them try to reorient me.”

The law in the UK allows you to join a gun club and gain a licence for a shotgun, obviously to be used strictly for club shooting or in some other places under guidelines. This is the way to get round the law and while I strongly urge that the only reason for you to do such a thing is because you love “sensible shooting in a club” and nothing else and while you must be of exemplary character to be “granted” such a licence, nevertheless there would be a certain feeling of security in your home, were it known that you were a local member of a gun club.

Look, it has to begin somewhere, does it not?

Philosophy and sensibility

In the States, there is already a radicalized mindset about guns and it is sharply divided but the weight is on the side of gun rights. Over here, it would shock many to even see that picture at the top of the post, much less have one in your hands. We are, by and large, a non-guntoting society.

Many would argue that the moment weapons are “allowed” into the hands of people, you are creating violence in that society. Really? You look around out society and see crims acting with total impunity, backed by the politicized courts – witness Cherie Blair’s latest go-soft-on-crims ruling – look at the chances of you meeting personal violence these days and you say we are a non-violent society?

You say knives are far less violent than guns? Tell Vincent Cooke that. Tell Myleene Klaas.

People – under the EU in particular, our society has changed and it won’t be too long now until guns are pressed into the hands of young men and women anyway, for the wrong purpose – war. It is so difficult for those outside the OoL readership, for example, to see that we are being pushed into a compliant serfdom, at the beck and call of precisely the people above who should have no say in our lives at all. Did you read that post about the psychopaths who rule us?

We are at a crossroads. I’m a peaceable person and would only ever want a weapon as a deterrent. Mind you, it would have to be apparent to all and sundry that I’d have no compunction using it too. With a legal gun cabinet and inside – a legal gun, locked away from the kiddies, it would alter the nature of the policy proposals from the bstds who “govern” us.

Even if you’re not as aggressive as I am on the matter, you are gradually being forced into “quiet radicalization” and sooner or later, you will have to make some decisions about how sacrosanct your home is and how much your family means to you. Or do you want a life where government inspectors from various departments – Elfansafetee, Social Services etc. – pay periodic visits to see if you are complying with their latest inane regulations, on pain of reprisals?

In this country, we favour quiet solutions to problems. I’m certainly not advocating arming ourselves to the teeth, not in the least but I can imagine that if many people, quietly and completely legally, mind, were to be granted a shotgun licence, not to protect their homes and families but because of their love of gun clubs, then that is just promoting a new sport, isn’t it, like slot car racing, knitting or tiddliwinks?

And while we’re at it

People, you think we are not now in those times? What do you think of this? [H/T Lord T]

Tens of thousands of benefits claimants will be referred to food banks by the Government, which is worried that many Britons face a stark choice: starvation or feeding themselves by begging or stealing.

From tomorrow, jobcentres in England and Wales will refer the needy to charity-run food banks that will give them a food parcel. It is the first time in living memory that hungry people will have been passed on to charities in this way.

[I wrote two posts on this issue: one, two. I don't personally have any weapon of any kind in my home, nor can I manufacture one, nor have I any intention of being anything but a good boy ........... yet. The decision on when I feel sufficiently radicalized to "apply" for gun ownership is one I'll make in my own good time and when I'm ready, not when some government department directs me to.]

40 Responses to A shotgun in every home

  1. September 21, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    I feel that every law abiding citizen in Britain should apply for a shotgun licence simply because you can. If left too long you may find you cannot.

  2. nemesis
    September 21, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Why Switzerland has the lowest crime rate:
    link to youtube.com

  3. September 21, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Exactly and to quote a commenter at my site:

    There are estimated to be four million guns in Britain. By definition, they are in the hands of criminals. We don’t have ‘gun control’ but rather a state guarantee to armed criminals that their victims will be defenceless.

    • September 22, 2011 at 1:56 pm

      The way I look it is that Britain does have gun control but it’s the criminals who are doing the controlling.

  4. September 21, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    I don’t want a shotgun in my home.

    I want a Glock 17 and a H&K MP5

    • September 21, 2011 at 8:51 pm

      You’ll get put away for that, PC.

  5. Lurch
    September 21, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    You don’t need to be a member of a gun club to get a shotgun certificate. The presumption in law is that you shall be granted a certificate unless there is a compelling reason why you are disallowed. Such as a history of criminality or violence.
    You will be asked why you want a shotgun, although there is no legal requirement or basis for the question, to which the answer can simply be clay pigeon shooting.

    • September 22, 2011 at 5:48 am

      Sadly, they’d only have to look at my scores from computer games to realise that wouldn’t be likely! :lol:

  6. Lord T
    September 21, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Cross posted comment from NO.

    James,

    You don’t need a reason for a Shotgun now. You can just apply for one and you don’t have to go near a club.

    Tom, (Who made the 4M comment)

    The records show there is 1.5M Shotgun Certifiate holders and 1.3M FAC holders in the UK. It is on Google somewhere. There will be a lot of overlap there. That won’t include Plod and of course the yoofs from down the road.

    Bearing in mind that not everyone with a certificate has a weapon and that you can have as many shotguns as you can store safely on a shotgun certificate there must be about 5M+ legal weapons out there, mostly shotguns

    That 4M figure you quote was from quite a few years ago. They have only arrested or shot a few hundred in that time and as more are smuggled in to meet demand it must be 5M by now at least.

    I thought guns were banned. Looks like the great sensor scan of 1997 was pretty useless. We trust you to hand in your weapons but we don’t trust you with them. Tossers. :roll:

  7. September 21, 2011 at 11:12 pm

    I own a couple of shotguns. Being a decent charachter it wasn’t difficult getting a shotgun certificate.
    I wouldn’t consider using them for home defence. Under the current climate you would definately face prison for shooting an intruder. Besides, shotguns are too cumbersome for home defence. A cup of coffee would be more effective. For serious defence we need handguns but the buggers dont trust us with those.

    I have just sheduled two posts to appear at my place over the next two Sundays about myths surrounding gun control. They were written by someone else and he’s let me reproduce them at mine.

    • September 22, 2011 at 5:49 am

      “Under the current climate you would definately face prison for shooting an intruder. “

      Given you face arrest and months of waiting even if you kill the burglar with weapons HE brought to YOUR home, I’d have to concur…

      • September 22, 2011 at 9:07 am

        Yeah. Burglar attacks you with a knife, you wrestle and he gets stabbed. You get arrested.

        Burglar attacks you with a knife. You bugger off upstairs and get the keys to the gun cabinet, go into the other room and unlock the gun cabinet, then go to the cupboard under the stairs and unlock the ammo box, load the gun and shoot the bastard. Self defence? They’ll throw the key at you.

        • Lord T
          September 22, 2011 at 3:38 pm

          I was cleaning it when the burglar broke in. So I popped a cartridge in. Thought it was bird shot but was a 3.5 magnum cartridge. Sorry.

          • September 22, 2011 at 4:58 pm

            Hmmm….
            A likely story. You’re nicked son.

            • September 23, 2011 at 3:43 pm

              No, no! Just claim the shotgun went off accidentally. It worked for Kenneth Batchelor.

              • September 24, 2011 at 2:48 pm

                Interesting. I didnt know about that story.

                Accidently though? Yeah right The jury aquitted him because they thought he had the right to shoot the bloke. And quite rightly too.

    • September 22, 2011 at 8:19 am

      Besides, shotguns are too cumbersome for home defence.

      Sawn off?

      • September 22, 2011 at 9:08 am

        If you did that it would just be another illegal gun. There is a minimum barrel length.

      • September 23, 2011 at 7:19 am

        Actually, they’re what a lot of US firearms enthusiasts recommend for home defence over handguns: less likely to penetrate walls & endanger family, greater stopping power at close range, and the bowel-freezing sound as you rack one into the chamber might be enough to give an intruder pause… :lol:

        • September 23, 2011 at 10:28 am

          Actually the US also has a minimum legal barrel and overall length for shotguns that’s more restrictive than the UK. But even staying within the legal limits you can probably still get a shottie short enough for that. The real problem is that unlike the Yanks home defence is not an accepted reason to have any kind of gun and you have to keep them locked up. If an armed intruder broke in right now my shotgun might as well be on another planet for all the good it’s going to do me.

    • September 22, 2011 at 9:19 am

      Shall look. As for the scenario below, with the keys to the cabinet etc. – well, we could hardly comment, could we? ;-)

  8. Damo
    September 21, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Imagine if we were all to apply for shotgun licenses? That would surely put the fear of God into the government.

    • September 22, 2011 at 9:09 am

      I think everybody should do that anyway, even if you never use your gun for owt, the more that are owned the better

      • September 22, 2011 at 9:15 am

        I’d see it as the slow creep of shotguns into people’s homes – a few dozen here, a few dozen there. Nothing to excite suspicion.

  9. Voice of Reason
    September 22, 2011 at 1:00 am

    I like Art Buchwald’s idea for self defense – a tactical nuke. No-one can get away fast enough.

    • September 22, 2011 at 9:14 am

      Slightly more difficult to apply to said robber in situ, VofR.

  10. September 22, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Quite like the idea though of so many – little old ladies, elderly gentlemen, young guys and girls, anyone with money to protect – began applying. It would have the legislation changed quickly.

  11. Lord T
    September 22, 2011 at 8:58 am

    The biggest hurdle to getting a shotgun license and a FAC is that you need to have someone in an approved profession signing for your character. This is a relic from the old ‘professional’ class. A bank clerk is a valid character. Not everyone has access to one and may have to pay for the privilege. A FAC requires two people.

    Bearing in mind you can suppress a shotgun, some do it reasonably well, you could just fit your burglar into a bag and feed him into the composter. A useful end to a useless life. (Only joking to all Plod reading) ;-)

    • September 22, 2011 at 9:13 am

      They’re coming for you too, lad.

    • September 22, 2011 at 9:16 am

      I didn’t have access to a ‘professional’ so I got a pub landlord to sign it. No body questioned it.

  12. Tattyfalarr
    September 22, 2011 at 9:40 am

    All this fuss about guns. :roll: It only takes a little imagination to turn anything to hand into a deadly weapon..including your own hands. Never mind…sharia will sort that out ;)

  13. September 22, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Another thing worth bearing in mind. As I recall the old WWII Sten gun was designed to be made cheaply and quickly in a fairly basic workshop. The last word in sub-machineguns it certainly wasn’t, but if it was possible to make those outside a proper armaments factory in the 1940s it would be possible today, and I’d bet it would be possible to make other firearms. Handguns, for instance. In fact we know damn well it is because people in various places have been getting nicked in possession of improvised firearms for years – the Yanks even had a special name for them: zip guns. So even if you could stop all organised manufacture of firearms and block all imports, including starting pistols and theatrical replicas that can be converted (as found with Mark Duggan), you still can’t keep guns out of the hands of people whose living revolves around breaking the law anyway. If they want a gun they’ll find someone with the skills and tools and simply pay to have a basic gun made. The bottom line is that criminals will always, always be armed if they want. Preventing law abiding citizens from having appropriate tools to defend themselves achieves nothing.

    • Lord T
      September 22, 2011 at 3:40 pm

      Zip guns are easily made. What you want is Phil Lutys machine pistol.

      • September 23, 2011 at 6:16 am

        Hadn’t heard of the bloke, but seems he’s been demonstrating exactly the point I’m making: if a criminal wants a gun and can’t get one another way it’s actually not all that hard to just make one.

        • September 24, 2011 at 5:48 pm

          Weren’t AK-47s designed to be easy to manufacture with limited workshop facilities?

        • Lord T
          September 24, 2011 at 8:17 pm

          He made one to demonstrate that the law was stupid. He stupidly let a scumbag journo near it who turned him in and he spent the rest of his life being persecuted by Plod to make a point. Died about a year ago if I remember.

    • September 22, 2011 at 8:31 pm

      Preventing law abiding citizens from having appropriate tools to defend themselves achieves nothing.

      Oh but it does, as it was always intended to do, it stops the guns being pointed at our Glorious Leaders. It was never about public safety, it has always been about the safety of ‘Them’

      • September 23, 2011 at 5:58 am

        Um, yeah, you got me. :oops: I should have said ‘achieves nothing in the way of crime reduction’.

  14. Bill
    September 23, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Never mind a licence application I just want to become a ‘professional Russian’

    link to mostwatchedtoday.com

  15. Jens Kaufenberg
    November 22, 2011 at 12:15 am

    Hmm…interesting thread.

    UK gun laws make absolutely no sense, that’s for sure.
    Want to buy a standard air-rifle at restricted 12 ft/lbs? No prob…as long as you present yourself in person.
    Want to buy a 12g shotgun, that depending upon the load is likely to be more than 100X the power of said air-rifle?…sure…as long as you show plod a secure gunsafe first and ‘prove’ that you are of ‘sound mind’ with no criminal record, age not really a restriction (thirty 11 year olds last year were granted SGC’s according to BASC).
    Want to buy an air-rifle with a bit more ‘oomph’ than 12 ft/lbs for effective plinking of vermin? You know….all the way up to an arm-wrenching 28ft/lbs? Ha Haar! Well for this you’re gonna have to apply for a full FAC (firearms certificate)…mired in complication and frustration but weirdly, once obtained, also enables you to purchase say anything up to a mag’ fed .50 bolt action with more than 12,500 ft/lbs of muzzle energy such as this.. link to guntrader.co.uk ;-)

    Like has been said though, unless you were to keep your shotgun, loaded (preferably a semi-auto with 1 round of 00 buck in the chamber and another 7 in the magazine…another FACing issue!) under the bed I’d prefer the Grey Nichols spoon bat option.

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