UKIP and LPUK

Nice to see UKIP getting a mention, if not a very nice mention.

Actually, I quite liked the description – sanity tempered by a slight eccentricity. Perfect. That’s us, that’s our heritage.

The divisions are disguised by Nigel Farage’s libertarianism, which pledges to stop the government from promoting either economic equality or political correctness. The party’s position on social issues has been cleverly calibrated to appeal to social traditionalists without formally embracing their worldview. Hence, UKIP defends the right to wear a cross in the workplace because it’s none of the state’s business what someone hangs around their neck. But the party also wants to ban the burka because the wearing of it is, by default, evidence of oppression. These could be consistent libertarian positions, but they could just as easily be examples of using libertarian language to pander to prejudice.

Either way, the appearance of coherence is the genius of Nigel Farage. Farage is one of Britain’s great everyman conservatives, with an innocent, unblinking expression that suggests a pug being gently squeezed from its middle. Like Boris or Nadine, “Nige” is an anti-politician.

I like UKIP more and more and seriously can’t see an alternative at the moment with the Tories going alternately pink and Attila the Hun on a mission to pay off a debt which the PTB created in the first place. There just needs to be a viable candidate this side of sane in every constituency. Unless events overtake us, I can’t see the Westminster system going down in the next few years and so we’ll still be stuck with the Big 2.5, with UKIP seemingly the only other choice unless Boris gets in but his stance on gay non-marriage lost me.

The other party I’d look at is LPUK but they’re so rife with dissension and it’s not hard to see why. Libertarianism isn’t left or right – it’s about freedom and that’s a fine thing but how can the party compete in the electoral process the way it’s set up now? If LPUK could put up a coherent set of policies for governing, then they’d do much better and they also need a leader of Farage’s standing or better.

Both IPJ and DK were stylish but didn’t quite carry Everyman. IPJ’s Achilles Heel is that he speaks the truth nobody bothers to ferret out and thus is marginalized and as for DK, the transition from knowledgeable swearblogger to Prime Minister is a step too far it seems, particularly as DK is mighty busy these days.

Wonder if Longrider or Trooper Thompson fit the bill?

29 comments for “UKIP and LPUK

  1. September 17, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    Wonder if Longrider or Trooper Thompson fit the bill?

    TT maybe. Not me. Mind you, I’m all in favour of eccentricity. There isn’t enough of it about these days.

  2. AndrewWS
    September 17, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    LPUK, of course, no longer exists, but from its ashes has arisen the Independent Libertarians – not so much a party, more a network:

    http://www.independentlibertarians.com/

    and one can support it as a ‘friend’ without actually joining. Whether it actually stands a chance of accomplishing anything is another matter.

    I used to be a member of both (not at the same time, of course) and would vote UKIP again. At its best, as epitomised by Farage, it’s great; at its worst, it’s dominated by unthinking people who get their ideas from the Daily Mail.

    • September 18, 2012 at 12:15 am

      AWS,
      I hate to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but LPUK never went anywhere.

      James, you can find the Libertarian Party UK manifesto and policy documents in the right hand tool bar on their website.
      http://libertarianpartyuk.com/

      • Richard Carey
        September 19, 2012 at 6:58 pm

        “LPUK never went anywhere.”

        You can say that again!

    • September 19, 2012 at 11:40 am

      Given a sufficiently broad definition of “libertarian” and “functioning” then there are four functioning libertarian parties in the UK: The Independant Libertarian Network, the Pro Liberty Party, LPUK, and the Georgist Young People’s Party.

      Of these, the only one standing in Corby is Dr Rohen Kapur (remember him?) for the Young People’s Party. Given what Dr Kapur has been though in public, and the performance of the other parties, he deserves a pat on the back.

      As for LPUK, yes, it trades, but it isn’t going anywhere. Given a sufficiently broad definition of “libertarian” and “functioning” then there are four functioning libertarian parties in the UK: The Independant Libertarian Network, the Pro Liberty Party, LPUK, and the Georgist Young People’s Party.

      Of these, the only one standing in Corby is Dr Rohen Kapur (remember him?) for the Young People’s Party. Given what Dr Kapur has been though in public, and the performance of the other parties, he deserves a pat on the back.

      As for LPUK, yes, it trades, but it isn’t going anywhere. It has meetings and takes money, and has a pulpit from which to “note” it’s detractors. On this point James is wrong, LPUK has many detractors but zero dissenters because they have all formally left and formed the ILN up North and the PLP down South. LPUK is therefore united under the leadership of Andrew Peter Withers, who I believe will never step down, and this is why his party will not rise.

      Any TV or Newspaper wishing to cover the libertarian parties will google Andrew Peter Withers and give him a worse bashing than Devils Kitchen ever got. In contrast, the backstory of the Pro Liberty Party and Independant Libertarian Network will show how completely intolerant of sleeze they are, which will be an asset for them.

      The only thing going for LPUK is, frankly, Guy Montrose, but he is driving down a dead end.

      • AndrewWS
        September 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm

        Having met Dr Rohen Kapur, I would hardly think he qualifies as a “young person”.

  3. September 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    This chimes with one of my hobby horses. Don’t vote mainstream. As long as the politicos in the big three don’t feel threatened then they will not change. A turn towards independents even if it does not unseat many big 3 politicians will scare them somewhat.

  4. nisakiman
    September 18, 2012 at 9:16 am

    I agree with LR in that there’s not nearly enough eccentricity in the higher echelons of power. The politicians at the top are colourless and totally lacking in charisma. Not only that, but they are totally lacking in ideas too. It’s just more of the same, and anyone who tries to be innovative is quickly buried.

    I like Farage a lot, and would vote for him on the strength of his personality alone. Seeing him perform in the European Parliament is a joy to behold. If he could get Dan Hannan on board as a deputy they could pose a real threat to the comfort zone of the big two-and-a-half.

  5. September 18, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Having read your article with interest, particularly the part concerning LPUK. I have to state that having been a member of the LPUK for a year now, I see no signs of dissension, nor do I concur that the party lacks a coherent set of policies?

    A quick look at the LPUK site confirms that policies are in place, indeed policies that have been tried and tested many being used in Switzerland and having proven very effective (the swiss seem to have done rather well on them for many years now).

    Further more, the LPUK finds itself affiliated with the growing global Libertarian movement, something that the other parties lack. This gives the LPUK a powerful number of global allies and places it at the forefront of a new forward thinking global Libertarian movement.

    Libertarianism has a vast and strong philosophical, academic and practical pedigree, backed up by heavy weight thinkers such as Friedman, Rand and Nozick, to name but a few. LPUK is no ordinary domestic party, but something far bigger, and far more important.

    The world has suffered from many disappointing political movements over the last 100 years, however Switzerland has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that placing the power of a nation firmly in the hands of ‘The People’ can lead to great prosperity and stability.

    Libertarianism is here to stay and more and more people are waking up to the fact that it offers a stable, happy prosperous way of life and a seductive alternative to what we currently have. Libertarianism is the future and the future is Libertarianism. Live free in peace…

    • Richard Carey
      September 20, 2012 at 2:26 am

      That’s all very well and happy clappy, but one day, you’ll have to deal with the corpse under the patio.

  6. September 18, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Guy, I appreciate your comment on LPUK.

    My attitude is positive towards LPUK, which is why I ran it as one of two alternatives. I know both IPJ and DK and know of Anna Raccoon. I get much of the LPUK news through a few of the others. I am co-admin for Orphans of Liberty which, though not specifically a libertarian site, is libertarian in nature and often sports those themes.

    So it’s not in the nature of hostility that I mentioned the dissension and sorry but there was great dissension with four “heads” of the party, one female. I don’t wish to air dirty linen again but it couldn’t have been described as anything but dissension.

    Presumably all that is in the past and it’s full steam ahead. The libertarian, by definition, is freethinking and there are many intelligent people in there – hence a range of views will be represented. Range of views unfortunately, militates against “yesman” type “do as the leader says” politics and therefore it’s perhaps not the best “party” for single line policy.

    Your words on libertarianism are right and it’s a noble tradition. Indeed “live free in peace”.

  7. Malpoet
    September 18, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    IPJ and Guy Montrose are wrong. The LPUK is not a functioning Party. About five of them held an unconstitutional AGM, but they did not address the issues that caused the Party to disintegrate and they are now a thing of the past.

    There are two current initiatives in the Independent Libertarian Network and Pro-Liberty. It will be interesting to see how they develop. There are some Libertarians in UKIP as there are in other parties, but it is not likely to become a libertarian party.

  8. Greg Tingey
    September 18, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    The writer has swollowed someone’s lies I see.
    There is no prohibition on wearing the christian death-cult’s symbol in the workplace.
    THERE IS, if it is on a dangly chain in an HOSPITAL
    There is if there is a ban on all jewellry, no exceptions.

    This idiocy is why I can’t support UKIP, though it’s main policy I do agree with.
    These delusions are as bad as those of Picle,s who should know better – since he’s also a politician, so maybe he’s lying?

    PLEASE don’t do this?

    • Richard Carey
      September 19, 2012 at 7:20 pm

      Greg,

      may I suggest you start your own blog, dedicated to attacking religions in general and / or Christianity in particular?

      That way, you may be able to avoid crow-baring your antitheism into so many unrelated comment threads.

  9. September 19, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    There are four libertarian parties in the UK Three of them are classically Libertarian,

    The proliberty party as yet not registered with the E.Commission
    The independent libertarian network
    the Libertarian party UK
    The Young Peoples Party a geolibertarian party fielding a candidate in the Corby By Election

    As far as the poor Gryphon is concerned I think he’s been consigned to history.

    • Andrew Withers
      September 20, 2012 at 6:40 am

      There are two Libertarian Parties with policies , the Libertarian Party UK and the Scottish Libertarian Party which is being currently registered. We can only note the formation of other parties until we see a glimmer of a policy statement. Until then we can only wish them well with their endeavours.

    • September 20, 2012 at 9:20 am

      My mistake the Gryphon lives…. ( Sorry)

    • John Watson
      September 20, 2012 at 6:02 pm

      Actually here is the full list….

      pro liberty (to be registered)
      Scottish Libertarians (to be registered)
      UKIP (Claims to be a libertarian party in their new constitution, and apparently their new/existing/official position)
      Scottish Progressives (Libertarian style message)
      Libertarian Party
      Independent Libertarian Network
      Young Peoples Party (Advised above)
      Libertarian wing of the Conservatives.

  10. Richard Carey
    September 19, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    I urge libertarians to get involved in politics, and not let the failure of LPUK to put you off.

    Down in London we’ve set up Pro Liberty, and there is also the ILN, who I am sure we will be working with as allies. The approach of the two parties will be different, but the underlying message will be the same, and we shouldn’t let differences on the theoretical level, which exist between each and every one of us stop us ever uniting in practical ways the principles we believe are right. It may seem of dubious value right now, but I think we should be optimistic. In the past you could be a libertarian all your life and never know the word, but we have the opportunity to make the case for liberty to a wide audience, which was not the case 20 years ago. As for libertarians in other parties, Pro Liberty will try to work with them and support libertarian candidates in whatever party or none.

    I’d rather not say too much about LPUK, but the term ‘busted flush’ fits the bill. If there are still libertarians within the party, they should get out. A libertarian party has to practice what it preaches, and this was not the case.

    • John Watson
      September 20, 2012 at 5:12 pm

      Richard, from the outset the pro-liberty is turning into a LPUK bashing party. Last year near collapse of the LPUK , which I consider was a constitutional fall out involving multiple Individuals. The constitution of the LPUK needs to be heavily blamed for its near collapse.

      If any one does not learn from the LPUK mistakes or even admit to their own mistakes, or continue to try to score points then the Libertarian movement in the UK will be seen no more than a group of amateurs fighting among each other.

      In the UK we have over 8-9 different groups/parties claiming to represent Libertarianism. Instead of attacking each other we all need to focus on moving liberty forward. Maybe in years to come we can all merge to create a new political force on UK politics however we have not reached that stage.

      However, I have the political view with our current UK political setup it would be almost impossible for any true UK Libertarian political party to win any seats.

      • Richard Carey
        September 20, 2012 at 7:01 pm

        John,

        Pro Liberty has tried to extend a hand of friendship to the Scottish Libertarians, and we are registering the party only in England and Wales, advising libertarians north of the border to contact you. James, the interim leader, sent a message to your party some time back, but I don’t think he received a response. I might add that the first comment to the first message of your then newly-appointed leader on your website back in March was from me, wishing you all the best.

        Also we have been in touch with ILN and made our position clear that we want to work together, and that we will support and work with libertarians in whatever party or none.

        I have no desire to talk about LPUK, but I am not going to take a vow of silence when someone else brings the subject up. We have to try to be honest and open. Only then we will be able to build a strong libertarian movement. I hope Pro Liberty will be part of that, and I believe it’s worth the effort to try.

        • John Watson
          September 20, 2012 at 8:49 pm

          Richard, I have sent james an email of our current status….

  11. September 19, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    All the best to you with that.

    • Richard Carey
      September 20, 2012 at 7:12 pm

      Thanks James

  12. September 20, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Technical feedback for James.

    There are a lot of different comments that duplicate each other, and even duplication within mine (I ended up jugling text in a text editor and messsing up). My guess is that this is because the either moderation or page caching is not working smoothly, or both.

    I observed the total count of comments switching from 5 to 9 and back again as if the caches on distinct servers were out of synch and my requests were swithing between nodes. Could be a middleman rather than the blog though.

    • September 20, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      Might be something to do with Cloudflare. I noticed the same thing.

  13. Paul
    September 20, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    As for the part about UKIP wanting to ban the burqa (really, it’s not the burqa that is really being talked about but the niqab – I’ve rarely seen a burqa being worn here in Britain) is that I’m actually unsure how far they expect the ban to go.

    As far as I can tell, UKIP don’t want to ban it altogether as far as I can see but do want to ban it in public buildings, airports, schools, petrol stations and places like that. I think it’s eminently sensible. People wearing other face coverings like balaclavas wouldn’t be tolerated or welcomed in places like that, and the niqab is actually very similar to the balaclava. Nigel Farage’s opinions on the niqab are pretty similar to Pat Condell’s as well.

    UKIP don’t seem to have a problem with the conservative hijab either, and it’s worth nothing that the niqab/burqa is actually banned in several Muslim countries, especially more secular ones.

    It’s a symbol of the oppression of women in godawful Islamist-dominated Muslim theocracies and TBH I think any woman actually choosing to wear such a garment here should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

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