Expect The Ratchet To Tighten A Little More

September 29, 2013 24 Comments
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The high court rejected the application by the man, known only as R, that he should not have to give a sample to officers working for Operation Nutmeg, which targets those convicted of serious offences before the collection of DNA records became routine. That operation is aimed, primarily, at clearing up unsolved historic crimes.

This is a blow to true freedom, and a warning to us all.

Yes, forget for the moment that this man’s a convicted criminal, the lowest of the low – he served his time, and his application was correct, and so should have been granted.

In their judgment, Lord Justice Pitchford and Mr Justice Hickinbottom, sitting in London, said the process was lawful and proportionate.

The judges said the way the request was first made in March was unlawful but on the second occasion the request was legitimate. “[The police inspector] was fully justified in concluding that the public interest in the detection of crime outweighed the limited interference with the claimant’s private life,” Pitchford said.

Really? Well, then, what’s to stop the National DNA database being submitted for serious proposal yet again?

Because what would aid ‘detection of crime’ more than getting hold of ALL our DNA?

Peter Neyroud, the former head of the National Policing Improvement Agency, told BBC Radio before the decision: “Collecting this DNA is worthwhile. It helps solve serious, historic cases. Of the 6,000 samples taken so far there are around 100 matches. I’m sure the police will get something worthwhile in around 50 of these cases. We are talking about pretty serious crimes here.”

Imagine what they’d get if they just sampled us all? We – the innocent members of the public – don’t deserve it any more than those having served their time do.

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24 Responses to Expect The Ratchet To Tighten A Little More

  1. jaded
    September 29, 2013 at 11:36 am

    This is a difficult subject Julia and I can see both points of view.However if you are a mother of a murdered or raped child then would you want DNA taken to bring justice to your family?Or would you care more about the human rights of criminals? Hopefully you will never have to make that hard decision.

    • MTG
      September 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm

      Your offer to furnish a personal sample in order to be included voluntarily on the database was an act of supreme confidence and a very impressive gesture, WC Jaded.
      What’s that…you haven’t made such an offer?

      • jaded
        September 29, 2013 at 9:21 pm

        Even a stopped clock is right twice a day Melvin-this is your moment.I haven’t given a sample and when asked a few years ago I refused.It is now compulsory for new police recruits to give DNA but I joined before that.Yes I am on the fence on this topic.

      • jaded
        September 30, 2013 at 10:16 am

        Sorry Melvin,one more thing.This petitioner has been convicted of a serious offence,he is not an innocent member of the public having his DNA “harvested” on a random search.

      • Furor Teutonicus
        October 1, 2013 at 6:47 pm

        The collection of DNA/Fingerprint samples are part of the job Melvyn.

        Apparantly to check for “contamination” of a crime scene.

        I do not know if the rule still applies, but it WAS so, that on leaving, you could ask for your “records” to be destroyed.

        IF you are so naive to believe that they actualy DID destroy them, you are not the Melvyn I have learned to know. :roll:

    • September 30, 2013 at 5:47 am

      That, Jaded, is EXACTLY why we shouldn’t leave justice up to the victims, isn’t it?

      • jaded
        September 30, 2013 at 8:11 am

        Victims should have a say Julia.

        • MTG
          September 30, 2013 at 8:16 am

          It is not a totally futile exercise, but pointing out the obvious to a fool necessitates a series of repeats, Julia.

          • jaded
            September 30, 2013 at 10:49 pm

            Ever been a victim of crime Melvin? Nursey stolen your pension? Carer used your bank-card without you knowing?
            Wouldn’t you like to have a say in sentencing?

            Jaded;the fool who spends all day dealing with crime and victims so what do I know?

            • MTG
              October 1, 2013 at 7:43 am

              quod gratis asseritur…gratis negatur.

              • jaded
                October 1, 2013 at 8:29 pm

                You must had a very depressing childhood Melvin with a world record amount of wedgies. :razz:

        • Andrew Duffin
          October 1, 2013 at 3:37 pm

          Victims should not have a say.

          Such a system is not justice, it is mob rule mediated by the power of the State.

          Crime and punishment is a matter for the law, not a matter for men.

          • Furor Teutonicus
            October 1, 2013 at 6:53 pm

            XX Victims should not have a say.XX

            They MAY have the right to appeal, but “A say” in sentencing reeks too much of this Scharia shit.

    • October 1, 2013 at 11:32 am

      Always with the children.

      Yes, a victim of crime may well call for draconian measures and punishments with complete disregard to peoples freedom and the justice system. That’s how grief affects people and as Julia says, that’s why victims should have no say in punishment.

  2. September 29, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    I’m with jaded here – this is a sticky wicket. The three card trick is always to do something outrageous so right-minded people rebel, e.g. if we had that DNA, we’d get the crim, everyone says yo, yo, yo – force him to give that DNA and suddenly we’re back into coercion, which libertarians oppose.

  3. Hal
    September 29, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Notice that it is acknowledged that “the request was first made in March was UNLAWFUL but on the second occasion the request was LEGITIMATE.” Legitimate pertains to the legislature – it is legalese; the request is still UNLAWFUL. And note that it is still a ‘request’ even though the corrupt bastards have given it the sheen of ‘legitimacy’.

    They can’t forcibly take anything – it is trespass against the person. You are quite within your rights to negotiate this ‘contract’ they are trying to get you to agree to by agreeing but that a sample will cost them XXX (name your price) of thousands of pounds.

  4. Dave_G
    September 30, 2013 at 12:10 am

    It’s a very, very rare ocassion when a serious crime is committed as a first offence – invariably a criminal has form and would be registered on the DNA database at their first conviction/arrest. Serious first-offence crimes are spur-of-the-moment and rarely thought through to make detection/conviction a problem for the authorities.
    Historic crime is another kettle of fish but the numbers just don’t justify the use of an atom bomb to crack a nut.

  5. Ed P
    September 30, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    My DNA was taken some 8 years ago after a minor, ahem, transgression (for which I received a caution). Does that mean it’s still on the database, or destroyed as it should have been once the 5 year term of the caution expired?
    Perhaps WC Jaded can furnish the answer?

    • Furor Teutonicus
      October 1, 2013 at 6:57 pm

      XX Does that mean it’s still on the database, or destroyed XX

      See my answer to MTG above.

      As far as I know, it needs a court order to remove the data.

      And if you believe they have not made a “secret” copy, you are a fool.

      • October 3, 2013 at 7:21 am

        Furor, don’t use the XX – even that goes to spam. Found you there among the viagra and toys this morning.

    • Furor Teutonicus
      October 1, 2013 at 6:59 pm

      XX Does that mean it’s still on the database, or destroyed XX

      Sorry my last post appears to have DISapeared.

      As far as I know, you need a court order to remove the data.

      BUT, if you believe they have not made a “secret” copy, you are a fool.

  6. October 1, 2013 at 7:11 am

    There was a rape/murder in Oz some years back and ALL the MEN in a small town were forced to provide DNA.

    There was no evidence that anyone in the town was associated with the crime. There was no evidence that just one person was involved, although the crime could have involved a woman (there are many such cases of women being involved in the rape of other women).

    After much argument all men were ‘tested’ and no perpetrator was found amongst them.

    The DNA results are still held by Victoria’s police.

  7. Fred
    October 4, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Hitler and his mate Himmler would have loved a DNA data bank.
    I am yet to be convinced that the Hitler DNA stream has died out, some of those currently aspiring to greatness in most countries could certainly give a smart straight arm salute.
    Give politicians a weapon and they will use it at some time.

    On the other hand::::–

    I do believe that when the FBI/CIA conducted their trawl of credit cards used to purchase child pornography a disproportional amount were found to belong to politicians, police officers, members of the judiciary and the clergy. On that consideration I could agree it justifiable to harvest all of their DNA in order to make paedophiles a rarer breed. I doubt that this would get past the ‘in the public interest’ test.

  8. Fred
    October 4, 2013 at 8:50 am

    I do believe that when the FBI/CIA conducted their trawl of credit cards used to purchase child pornography a disproportional amount were found to belong to politicians, police officers, members of the judiciary and the clergy. On that consideration I could agree it justifiable to harvest all of their DNA in order to make paedophiles a rarer breed. I doubt that this would get past the ‘in the public interest’ test.

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