Split in our ranks?

There’ve been some emails on this apparent split in the ranks of right-minded people – specifically, between the Dr. North triumvirate and that of the wider public, politically concerned, many who include this blog in their reading list.

These emails have suggested it needs sorting out.

OK, I’m going to add my twopence halfpenny worth. Not sure it will add anything but here goes.

There are so many who see that things are not right out there, not good. From the EU to PC insanity, from the anti-smoking ban to Julia’s daily list of the latest inanities, we’re all roughly in the same area politically, obviously with key differences around the edges.

Even this site, OoL, had an unholy split when one of the originators took his bat and ball and went home, accompanied by about half the readership, over religious differences with me. Thus was lost a combined force in one small way, in one corner of the sphere, when the sum of all those small ways across the sphere might have been quite formidable. However, divide and rule seems to play straight into the hands of the PTB, as they would wish it to be.

Someone else brought up the notion that to get all of us combining to try to achieve some result is as difficult as herding cats. I personally cannot abide socialism but recognize that for some reason, various Labour socialists from the heartland seem to be supporting UKIP as well as the traditional conservative [small c] support.

OK, fine, mine not to reason how a mind can reconcile Labour socialism and UKIP but if it’s so, it’s so and long let it continue. The thing is, UKIP, for all the foibles spelt out for us by the triumvirate of Dr North, the Slog and Autonomous Mind [a long time friend if he’ll permit that and still so now], the three-man band – for all those foibles, UKIP occupies a space in the national consciousness now, as Wiggia remarked. It may well be, in Nigel’s mind, a fourth party to take its place alongside the other three, I don’t know, can’t say but we’re getting into public perception here.

Some years back, in 2010, around general election time, we started up a group called Albion Alliance and it still exists as an aggregator for all things EU here. What became apparent, as Norman Tebbit pointed out in his column, was that we had no traction. One small part of the reason was that there were negative feelings among our wider radical community against both myself and one of the other principals who was also involved in a matter with Anna Raccoon, DK and the Libertarian Party, upon which I wrote some scathing things, which brought my own libertarian bona fides into question in many people’s eyes. A little man punching above his own weight was one of the asides. LOL.

I mention these things merely to reinforce that this herding cats syndrome is a major problem among thinking people. We simply can’t combine behind a banner, behind an idea.

Now to Wiggia, who wrote that piece the other day. Who is he? He’s everyman-with-a-brain, if he’ll forgive me saying so. He’s just an Englishman who lives somewhere down south, he has a long life experience in so many fields over the years and I invited him to write pieces as and when on our blog. Whilst I refer to him as co-author, he is his own man, with his own perceptions, his own wife and his own life – we just happen to agree on some things but not on others. I’m probably proudest of the atheist regulars at my place too because that shows we can all put aside these things in the interests of the greater political good.

Dr Richard North. He was one of the original anti-EU people, he’s done a power of good work and is a fierce proponent of direct democracy. Now that can’t be sniffed at – he’s done that and no one can take that away. I don’t know John Ward but do know AM and he is another fierce supporter of direct democracy and let’s get out of the EU. So was Albion Alliance. So are many of you.

So why the angst, the loggerheads? Personal perception. It seems, in this country, that one cannot stick the head above the parapet without someone else saying, “Oo, look at ‘im – delusions of grandeur, eh, wants to lead the vanguard. When I started blog groups with others, I was supposedly on some ego trip, ditto when one of three starting OoL.

And so to the Harrogate Agenda. These three started it and are running with it, with a fourth worthy whom many readers here also read – he lives not all that far from Cameron – and he appears to have been cast into the Harrogate shadows. I’m well aware of criticism of Dr North trying to hijack the Harrogate in a Nigel way to become a Dr North agenda. He certainly dominated that meeting in Harrogate. And just as with Albion Alliance, just as with my admittedly minor efforts in the sphere – there are people who don’t like it.

Toque had a good thing going at one stage – Witanagemot and the English Parliament. What happened? Splits again. Someone I don’t know called Uncles and our Toque fell out – people are always falling out and I ask – why? Why, for goodness sake? Tommy and the EDL – ditto. And what do the worthies do? Take their bat and ball and go home.

We’re always splitting and falling apart. The Harrogate Agenda has very good points it’s difficult to disagree with. So, what’s the issue? The issue is personalities, is it not? I understand this resentment of Dr North very well as there are so many who can’t abide me either. It seems the natural order in this country to dislike anyone making the running who differs with us on some points.

On the other hand, it is necessary for those making the running to also realize the need to carry others with them in one of the most difficult nations and most difficult area of politics for doing so. If Wiggia voices those concerns, then you can be sure many other hundreds of thousands out there will also harbour those concerns and the Harrogate Triumvirate do need to realize that instead of coming in blasting away, with the sword of righteousness strapped to their belts, they might take the criticism on board and look at it.

They may well be in the right over their political points but they have not carried the public. In fact, the public is showing signs of rejecting them as petty squabblers. Unfair? Well hell, life is unfair, politics is unfair.

Nigel has made his mark in public perception, more than Albion Alliance ever did or could. Harrogate might do better as it has a nationally syndicated figure, Dr North, at the helm but it is still not going to match UKIP for its influence, not in the foreseeable. Slagging off UKIP at every turn, in every second sentence, does not help the cause. Writing of flaws in the UKIP agenda is fine – we should be doing that. Writing that Nigel was off down the pub during important decisions is vindictive. I’m sorry but that’s how people perceive it and realpolitik says you must factor in people’s perceptions in the mix.

If you’ve pissed people off, you need to reexamine and try to rebuild bridges. At least you do if you’re trying to carry an agenda forward. The PTB have learnt that lesson, quite cynically, very well. A Russian friend of mine was railing about the obstinacy and idiocy of his fellow Russians. Group Hi-Fi sang a song about stupid people. They’re still his people though and supposedly the idea is to support one’s people, something the EU is trying to destroy in our case.

I’m a divisive figure, OK, but on this, am trying to be the opposite – to lend my voice to the call to put aside personal differences, differences in religion, party politics and all the rest of it and at least combine in this matter of direct democracy and getting the hell out of the EU. Let’s stop sniping at one another.

………..

Why was this written? It was written because one of the emails was from someone who has tried to support our agenda on DD and the EU from its inception and he was despairing of whether we can ever put aside differences and combine. He doesn’t hurt anyone, he has no ego trip, he’s really the nicest of blokes and he’s dismayed. He’s our thinking everyman, like Wiggia. And both want all the squabbling to end.

10 comments for “Split in our ranks?

  1. Furor Teutonicus
    February 16, 2014 at 7:46 am

    This seems to be a problem all over, when it comes to “right” thinking groups/partys.

    We started with “Die Repulikaner.” Then due to some tiff, there was a split, and we got “Pro-Deutschland”, (and other “Pro” groups. “Pro-Berlin” for example.) Then another split and we get “Altenativ für Deutschland” (Who are basically the same as UKIP, and are actualy considering working together in the E.U “Parliament.”) “Die Konservativen.” etc.

    Politicaly seen, there is not a space to insert a Rizzla between them. You would find it hard to know WHICH manifesto you were reading, when their logo was not pasted all over it.

    The point is, every time one of these splits happens, they take the odd couple of thousand votes with them. (TENS of thousands, even!)

    The actual number of voters choosing one of these partys is actualy increasing, but the vote is spread over many more “smaller” party, so ensuring there never WILL be a majority.

    If they could all just drop their egotistacle tendencys for an election, then we could REALLY give the “main” partys a kicking, but instead they prefer to argue and bugger off to form their own wee feifdoms over what colour shoe laces to wear, or important things like that.

  2. Peter Whale
    February 16, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Good post JH my take is that most people are pissed off with the political class as a whole with one or two exceptions. Any group or person who makes a good point against the ruling class from within or without being part of it are to be applauded for what they say even if they are not fully with your view. North and co snipe at everyone more so the people who propound some of their ideas as if they belong to them and them only. If you want to put a prod up the arse of the establishment vote UKIP in the Eu elections even if Farage is a prick and a tosspot after that run them all down they will be a little more divided and vulnerable.

  3. Mudplugger
    February 16, 2014 at 9:26 am

    The ‘traction’ issue is the vital bit. No matter how well-argued your case may be, without traction, it is going nowhere. At the moment, UKIP had gained traction, by whatever means, and thus represents the only viable focus for all those wanting to exit the EU.

    With a bit of growing-up and postponing irrelevant squabbles, all should get behind UKIP for now – win the votes, win the seats, win the influence, win the EU exit.

    After that, we can all get back to a new politics-as-usual, but getting out of the EU is the only thing that matters right now.

    Stay focused – don’t let the establishment divide and rule, for that is their aim.

  4. Judd
    February 16, 2014 at 9:53 am

    Interesting post.

    TPTB don’t need to attack UKIP when those who should be on side do a far better job of it than they could.

    When one points out that they are doing TPTB’s dirty work for them, they get personally insulted for doing so.

    Can’t imagine more comfort for the establishment than to see their enemies (assuming they all are) insulting and attacking each other.

    For better or worse UKIP is the only serious game in town for those of us who wish our country back, we either back them or all is lost.

  5. john in cheshire
    February 16, 2014 at 10:09 am

    James, as usual, I’m in agreement with most of what you say. And like any group of people who wish to make a change, it can only be done if the group is united in its intent. Having said that, I am also favourably disposed to Richard North, Witterings from Witney et al. If we don’t air our views and differences then aren’t we just becoming yet another traditional political movement; ie. keep quiet till we have power and then we can sort out our differences. That’s just the thinking of the Conservative and Labour parties. But once in power, it’s too late for the rot is actually built into the system. Public criticism, even severe criticism, if warranted is surely healthier than keeping it bottled up. I don’t like ad hominem attacks, but I have to say that those in prominent positions in whatever movement have probably thicker skins than us regular types. That’s how they manage to get to the top positions and over-keen protection of them can lead to a cult of personality which will also eventually be the undoing of the group.

  6. Radders
    February 16, 2014 at 11:48 am

    I’m one of those who advocate that whatever their shortcomings we ALL need to get behind UKIP right now. Farage is crap on detail but a great baby-kisser; North is a fine researcher but a crap baby-kisser. Whatever the wrong of it, the public vote for baby-kissers not boffins. Internet sniping is puerile and self-destructive. It needs to stop.

    And no ‘yes, buts ….’. Or you’ll be sent to your bedroom right now without dinner ….

  7. Ed P
    February 16, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    Hear Hear! (I just wish Nigel would shut his mouth sometimes, as his “off the cuff” remarks undo much of UKIP’s progress.)

  8. February 17, 2014 at 6:52 am

    It is better to have people inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in, as the old saw goes. The real problem is that the No 1’s at the top table in the tent so often fail to consider the No 2’s, and provide a porta-loo in some remote corner so that the less accurate can be comfortably confined when they have a need to ‘go’.

  9. Daniel1979
    February 17, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    Good post James!

    “.. but on this, am trying to be the opposite – to lend my voice to the call to put aside personal differences, differences in religion, party politics and all the rest of it and at least combine in this matter of direct democracy and getting the hell out of the EU. Let’s stop sniping at one another.”

    Absolutely agree. Can it really be beyond the wit of man to get the Northists and Farage together to find some common ground? Do we need to parent-trap them? Would be great if on “our side” of the fight we could all stop taking sides and re-focus on what needs doing. Line in the sand if needsbe.

    “It is better to have people inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in, as the old saw goes.”

    – couldn’t put it better.

    What really concerns me is that this split seems to be spreading, and IMHO it’s an ugly sight watching it unfold – it’ll not benefit any “right-minded” person.

    Can’t we all just get along? 😐

  10. mona
    February 17, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    UKIP is heading in the right direction,getting out of the EU is of the utmost importance, once that happens as it must we can then consider life without the ball and chain of that giant Socialist Corporation the EU Commission, untill then Farage and UKIP are our ONLY option.

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