Rest in torment, Church of England

I’d like to write Rest in Peace but it’s not peace these people are going to find. Even Cranmer has it wrong with his “women bishops OR schism”.

No, it’s follow scripture OR schism. The CofE has decided not to follow scripture, it is therefore no longer fit for purpose, therefore there will be schism and any real Christians left inside will now also be forced out.

The Guardian is full of it, even doing a live blog, as befits yet another socialist PC “victory” [read further dystopia]. The old churches are still worth visiting and even finding some measure of peace in but as for being functioning churches, the days have now gone.

Some would say never mind, the CofE was born in iniquity with Wolsey, Cranmer and Anne Boleyn and it’s only appropriate they die in iniquity. The word Laodicea springs to mind.

What’s happened, of course, is that actual Christians have left the church in droves, just as conservatives have left the Tories in droves and that’s just what the non-Christian Anglicans and Epicopalians want – they want the voice in the wilderness silenced. Just as the pink Tory Party wants the actual conservatives silenced.

What is left is the relativistic, socialist mish-mash, not unlike the barbarians after the sacking of Rome. Make your own religion up as you go – only they have control of the buildings and organization now.

Those words in the final hours are more prophetic now than ever:

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Some comments at Cranmer’s:

# The people who did this don’t care about the sufficiency of Scripture. They are busy establishing an entirely different religion. Consistency with the past is not relevant to the worship of Autonomous Man.

# As for our Anglican “separated brethren”, I wish them well and keep them in my prayers. And hope that Archbishop Justin Welby has a good stock of headache remedies in his bathroom medicine cupboard this week, the poor man is going to need them 🙂

He’ll need more than that. As a non-Christian, there’s only one direction he’s going. Smoke in the Vatican? Similar.

# A bishop to be be a bishop must be universally recognized. With this action, it is not possible.

# If the CoE approves this measure, the CoE will disintegrate within a generation. The place of conservative evangelicals will have been proscribed – despite all this eyewash about flourishing.

# This issue of women bishops – like contraception, abortion, and homosexuality – is about the very nature of the Church and membership in the Church.

And of course, non-Christians – the honest, admitted ones like the humanists, atheists and Science-is-Goddists, as distinct from the CINOs – are creasing themselves laughing at what they see as a storm in a teacup wracking a once formidable foe apart:

# And Christians wonder why fewer people bother with their organised religion. Watching from the sidelines as it were, I find it pure pantomime if not a reality version of Punch and Judy and I’m no lover of either.

18 comments for “Rest in torment, Church of England

  1. July 14, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    OK, what exactly is the scriptural basis for the exclusion of women? Isn’t is just historical/cultural custom, like Islamic beards and the hijab?

    • July 14, 2014 at 8:21 pm

      1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians. Quite clear.

      • July 14, 2014 at 11:24 pm

        I accept that, as do many traditional Protestants and Catholics.

        However, I did read one Protestant clergyman’s essay which said that St Paul meant that prohibition because women were uncultured and uneducated.

        I would need further convincing if that were true.

        Methodists would say that John and Charles Wesley’s mother led prayer meetings in her house whilst her husband was in London with his ministry. John Wesley also appointed women leaders for the Methodists.

        However, as mentioned, I would like to see a full biblical, rather than social (worldly), unpacking of the subject before arriving at a decision.

        My having women friends who are clergy in the Anglican Communion does not make this any easier.

      • Voice of Reason
        July 15, 2014 at 3:21 am

        It’s not so clear to me. In fact, Timothy only refers to the feminine in ‘mother killers’. The other references to ‘man’ and ‘brethren’ could be the standard generic usage. What it says in the original Greek, I know not.

      • July 15, 2014 at 7:20 am

        That’s Paul, not Jesus.

        • July 15, 2014 at 7:54 am

          That is part of the NT on which the CofE rests, along with the OT. That’s its manual it goes by.

          You and I can argue, Sackers, whether that is a good thing or a bad – that’s a separate discussion – but it is what the CofE is about. and in this matter, it is now unfit for purpose. It needs to cease trading as a Christian organization, otherwise it runs the risk of being done under the Trade Descriptions Act.

          If it redefined itself as a “formerly Christian, new social-construct happy club”, then that would be fine.

  2. Woman on a Raft
    July 14, 2014 at 7:47 pm

    The CoE has had problems for a century now, James, but it accelerated particularly in the 1980s with the removal of so many regular-hours jobs that congregations no longer had that core of middle-aged people to hold them up. White flight has made a difference, too. When people move they tend not to make contact with their new parish; I only know of one very strong exception to that, but it is a very pretty rural parish where the church has a social function.

    Most of the people I know have been married in churches but if two out of ten of them have any regular contact with a church now, I’d be surprised. And of those two, I’m not sure we are talking about CoE.

    It’s like osteoporosis; the damage sets in a lot earlier so that the final fracture is not really about which step you tripped over; it was going to happen at some point.

    It is impertinent of me to start laying out my explanations and prescriptions, but I think the loss of nerve was down to the sustained attack on nationality post WWII. It should have been challenged by the CoE, but instead they embraced it. But that is my hobby-horse so no need to take it seriously.

    • July 14, 2014 at 8:22 pm

      Not impertinent in the least and methinks you’re right here.

    • July 14, 2014 at 11:27 pm

      Very much agreed on the postwar nationality/culture question which the CofE did not delve into sufficiently.

      Yes, Christ saves many, regardless of origin, as the New Testament tells us. However, that does not absolve us of our social responsibilities as (Christian) citizens within the greater national fabric and local community.

  3. john in cheshire
    July 14, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    James, for me, it just shows how deeply embedded are socialists in the established Church; not just the CofE, but Roman Catholic and all in between. I think it has been deliberate and I don’t think it will end until the destruction of Christianity is total. The fact that the Church leaders are agonising over things that should be a basis for faith, and not shouting from every pulpit their opposition to the genocide of Christians throughout the muslim world, is sufficient for me to say that they are no longer believers in Jesus Christ and therefore are no longer (if they ever were) Christians. Why attend Church while it is being lead by socialists?

    • July 14, 2014 at 8:53 pm

      “I think it has been deliberate and I don’t think it will end until the destruction of Christianity is total.”

      Agreed. This is but one corner of the entire malaise too – we’re currently fighting the EU on another front but it’s the same PTB.

  4. Mudplugger
    July 14, 2014 at 8:34 pm

    Any such argument/debate/schism within the Church of England nowadays is rather like two bald men fighting over a comb.

    The world’s moved on, just as the hair has gone.

    • July 14, 2014 at 8:52 pm

      That’s fair comment to a point. The world thinks it has moved on. It’s actually gone backwards – look at politics in Britain today.

      • Radical Rodent
        July 14, 2014 at 9:46 pm

        Psalm 12 is a rather appropriate section of the Bible to look at, to get this into perspective (merely a repeat of the same problem, 3,000 years ago).

        • July 14, 2014 at 11:30 pm

          Agreed. We have turned once again to idolatry and worldliness.

          This is why we should not ignore the Old Testament. It, too, contains many good daily lessons, instructing through history.

          • Voice of Reason
            July 15, 2014 at 3:23 am

            It also contains some terrible ones, such as the behaviour of Lot, and the many genocides, let alone child sacrifice and whatnot.

  5. John Leon
    July 14, 2014 at 9:55 pm

    Being baptized and raised in the Orthodox Christian tradition under the Patriarchate of Moscow I can say that in the countries that embrace Orthodoxy the desire to remain absolutely true to the Gospels is very strong. Socialism always fails, the difference between the Soviet Regime, which is NOT modern Russia is that although they killed at least seventy thousand Clergy and Monks and Nuns they did not destroy Christianity despite the K.G.B. boasting that not a Church remained east of Moscow. In the short time that has elapsed since the total collapse of the Soviet regime the Church has grown very strong. In China at the rate of Christian conversion Christianity will be the biggest religion over there. As the Orthodox say, if we Orthodox cannot kill Christianity then it is the truth which cannot be denied. Socialism is a corpse, it just has not realized it yet.

  6. July 15, 2014 at 12:08 am

    Yep.

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